General discussion on the 13th generation Ford F150 truck. Terms of Service - I'm a long-time Ford and automotive enthusiast, and I've been writing about cars for over 10 years. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -. This generally only affects a low percentage of vehicles that received the 21B10 flash. Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans . JavaScript is disabled. Pcv Valve Ford 4.2 Liter V6 Engine Diagram . Reliability is important to me. All the VCT solenoid and spark plug tube seals require inspection, but not all require replacement. If it is, theyll likely recommend getting the pcm reprogrammed. This can be done by a Ford dealership or an authorized service center. Dealer called and said bill would be $1200. No matter what the cause of your engine shudder may be, its always best to err on the side of caution and get it checked out by a professional as soon as possible. How about introducing yourself in the new members section and posting a pic of your truck? But, this process cant be run in an unauthorized way. There may be some less smooth shifting during this process. So they basically work 15 hours but get paid only 10 hours. I was looking at another truck earlier and noticed on the Carfax it showed a "Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program Issued". Manage Preferences - Privacy Statement - Engine. LOL, Ford Raptor Exterior Modifications Forum [GEN 1]. MORE importantly, do it or not, it says they will only cover repairs until JAN 1, 2023. Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts. I will see what I can do to assist with this acceleration concern. 5.7 Hemi Lifter Failure Symptoms Causes & Fixes, Lomax Tonneau Cover problems & troubleshooting, Truxedo Sentry CT Problems & Troubleshooting, UnderCover Armor Flex Problems & Troubleshooting, Retrax Bed Cover Problems & Troubleshooting, Peragon Bed Cover Problems & Troubleshooting. Ford is offering a no-cost repair to reprogram the PCM on these vehicles suffering from engine shudder following the previous 21B10 update. In the meantime, its important to be extra careful when driving one of these recalled vehicles. If the PCM software is incorrect or outdated, it can cause the engine to shudder or shake. I had 21B03 and knock on wood I haven't had any negative side effects like I have read about Brought it back to the dealership and they ran the 21N08 - PCM Reprogam Due to . If you own one of these affected vehicles, you should take it to your local dealership as soon as possible to have the ECM reprogrammed. Recall 21B10 is a campaign by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) to recall certain models of childrens bicycles. @Stevec1129 I haven't had the chance to try this yet, but I'm really hoping this new recall I see for my truck fixes the issue. In December, I went in for the 21b10 - PCM Program for Cam Phaser Rattle. . It may not display this or other websites correctly. Cookie Policy - The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans. (1). The recall does not mean there is anything wrong with the vehicle, its a software update to prevent a phaser rattle noise from developing. Replacing rear bumper trim panel - anyone had to? Yesterday drove the truck from NY to Maine and all through the traffic out of NY truck had a strong vibration right around 1000 rpm and would settle at a full stop. Hey! However, the engine shudder is quite noticeable. I called my dealership this morning and they said there was nothing to be done to the vehicle. The engine shudders 21N08 issue can be caused by a variety of factors, including problems with the PCM software, issues with the transmission, or a lack of proper maintenance. Contact Us - Program 21N08 will be performed if your vehicle exhibits an engine shudder during light throttle operation between 1,500 and 2,500 rpm. 2. If you know how to fix it cheaply, then you might be able to get yourself a deal. Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 3], Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 2], Hmmm? Copyright 2022 by MechanicsPick.com! They will uninstall and re-install the program using specialized equipment and software. Go back and tell the dealer is has a shudder. The cause of engine shudder can vary, but its often the result of an imbalance in the engine itself. . From what I have gathered my dealership performed 21B10 on October 1st (NOT 21N08 which is supposed to be a factory roll back). Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. So, we see that transmission issues may be the cause behind 21n08 engine shudder. Im getting a better understanding on this, now. In rare instances, some vehicles will experience an engine shudder after reprogramming the PCM with the 21B10 update. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. I had the first PCM recall done too, but have an engine shudder issue. We cover this rattle in detail and how to fix it for free. Any shop with an IDS scan tool will be able to check your car for transmission codes. Otherwise, further diagnostics will be required to determine cause of shudders. If your Raptor is experiencing engine shudder, you may need to have the PCM (powertrain control module) reprogrammed. Advertising - Manage Preferences - You literally just typed back exactly what I said. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) needs to have been first reprogrammed under the earlier customer satisfaction program 21B10. So you need to verify with your dealership with your VIN that the recall repairs have been done. They only pay the dealership 75-80% of the labor cost, and guess what, the technicians are the ones who have to cover the difference. I'm assuming this is like a TSB. Contact Us - Ford 5.4 Engine Life Expectancy . You are using an out of date browser. GEN 2 (2017-2020) Ford F-150 Raptor Forums, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 2], Need some help ASAP Code P06B6/ Faulty PCM, Ford SVT Raptor General Discussions [GEN 1], Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, Hmmm? The benefits of reprogramming the PCM to address the engine shudder 21N08 issue include: By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission, which can help to eliminate the engine shudder. Posts: 20. Thats why you have to take the help of a mechanic or dealership. Hello Raptor world. Just extended the coverage. The engine shudders 21N08 issue can be caused by a variety of factors, including problems with the PCM software, issues with the transmission, or a lack of proper maintenance. Likes: 1. Field Service Action: 21N08 "PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder", Yep -- what ASV said. Your car should also be outside of its warranty in order to keep from voiding a warranty on your car. Sounds pretty promising Sounds pretty promising The problem stems from the fact that these vehicles are equipped with an engine control module (ECM) that can fail due to a software error. Good thing I bought the extended warranty. I was looking at another truck earlier and noticed on the Carfax it showed a "Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program Issued". The below is copied and pasted from this thread: 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER update. Advertising - Issues with IWE potentially caused by PCM Reprogram. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); We use cookies to personalise content and ads, to provide social media features and to analyse our traffic. There is a new Recall specifically for this. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. This is the PCM update to prevent cam phaser rattle and will erase your tune. 2015 - 2020 F150 - 21N08? And if you do need to restart it, make sure youre in neutral or park before doing so. 21N08? - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums Now they say it needs another round of cam phasers. This removes the shudder. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Proper maintenance is essential to keep a cars engine and transmission running smoothly. In addition, the ECM will receive an update that will improve transmission shift quality. Generally, Fords are extremely reliable vehicles and are cheap to repair. 1997 F150 stalls when defrost turned on full, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Engine shudder is a vibration that can be felt in the vehicle's engine, and it is usually caused by an imbalance . Because of this issue, your engine may shake or shudder. .any advice? Ford then released two further customer satisfaction programs as an extension of coverage. You are using an out of date browser. I got it too. I an having the same issues with my 2013 f150 ecoboost 116k started about 6 months ago. While there may be other potential remedies for the engine shudder 21N08 issue, the PCM . What did you do to your truck today? The goal of a manufacturer customer satisfaction program is to increase customer loyalty and repeat business. Mine does this while at low rpms. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Hmm very interesting perhaps I should take it in and see if they will replace mine. Only 21B10 has to be completed, 21N08 is extended coverage. . The transmission is responsible for transmitting power from the engine to the wheels. The Ford/GM 10R80 is "defective"? The Ford F150 sold 663,508 trucks in 2021, beating out Ram and GM. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. it's a software update to prevent a phaser . It may not display this or other websites correctly. If Im not in the garage creating content, youll find me outside, running, canoeing, and traveling. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. The Ford/GM 10R80 is "defective"? This can help to eliminate the engine proceed shudder. If youre a Ford owner, you may be eligible for the Customer Satisfaction Program 21B10. I scheduled the initial step of the Cam Phaser Reprogramming about three weeks ago. Its usually most noticeable at idle, but can also be felt when accelerating. Your email address will not be published. What did you do to your truck today? Some specific causes of the engine shudder 21N08 issue may include-. The Ford/GM 10R80 is "defective"? Surprised to not see a whole slew of threads or posts on 21N08. Because the 21B10 has expired and the 21N03 is about to expire at the time of this writing, we need to explore what your costs would be if you needed to replace the cam phasers out of your own wallet. Strange first post. The shudder may be felt during light acceleration, at speeds between 30-40 mph, and can last for a couple of seconds. Oftentimes, this engine shudder may be mistaken for a transmission shudder. Dealer will. At Ford Motor Company, we take vehicle safety and quality very seriously. Your email address will not be published. Sounds good to me. But what exactly is engine shudder? Im going to try to use it as a point of negotiation. Two versions of PCM calibrations - the regular one (21B10) and one for if you experience engine shudders with the regular one (21B10S2). Common transmission issues that may contribute to the engine shudder 21N08 issue include low transmission fluid levels, worn transmission components, or a damaged transmission control module. Im meticulous about my oil changes, every 4000-5000 miles using Amsoil 100% synthetic. These guys are simply trying to Band-Aid a crap design. I ended up having it in the shop 4 times between 3 different dealerships and none of them could fix the issue. I had the original work done under warranty 54k miles. #5. Originally, I understood the engine shudder to be a miscommunication between the camshaft position sensor and the PCM. PDF TO - National Highway Traffic Safety Administration I also don't know if the issue with the Cap Phasers will cause other engine problems down the road. PDF TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 20- 3.5L EcoBoost - Cold Start Ticking develop an undesirable noise. Hello mjpatera! This is because the PCM reprogramming process addresses the root cause of the issue and can help to prevent the issue from recurring in the future. Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program Issued - Ford Expedition Forum When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. The PCM reprogramming process is often recommended as a solution to the engine shudder 21N08 issue. In some cases, a little bit of harmless vibrations is perfectly normal and nothing to worry about. Privacy Statement - 2019 F150 Shudder/Vibration | Page 2 | F150 Ecoboost Forum (CSP 21N03 and 21N08), Aftermarket Products, Reviews & Installation, Suggestions, Comments & Questions about the Forum. In some cases, the engine may enter limp mode. The 21B10 was designed to solve a cam phasers rattle by increasing oil flow to them, but a percentage of affected vehicles demonstrated the side effect of an engine shudder. Powertrain Control Module Reprogram for Cam Phaser Rattle However, the increased oil in the cam phasers may affect engine performance, especially when cruising at a steady speed. Looking to buy my first F150, But the 21N08 Update This is outlined in the letter Ford sent to us 2018-2020 Expy owners . UPDATE: So I talked to Ford customer service today. (CSP 21N03 and 21N08) - Hi guys, I am pretty new F150 owner (2019 new to me bought about a month ago) and noticed on my ford pass app that I have two notices in my recalls section: CSP 21N03 CAM PHASERS and 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Recall letters were mailed to each affected vehicle owner On September 27, 2021. Check with your dealer to see if your vehicle is eligible and make an appointment for service. The three trucks I have looked at have had the 21N08 update, so my question is.If you were in my position, would you pull the trigger on any of those trucks? 21B10 will be the first thing a Ford dealer would do. The shudder may be felt during light acceleration, at speeds between 30-40 mph, and can last for a couple of seconds. Had my cam phasers done back in July. Privacy Statement - Be aware that your cam phaser rattle may return. Hopefully, I'll be switching over from 11+ years of Land Cruiser and Jeep ownership. This can be caused by something as simple as a loose spark plug, or something more serious like an issue with the crankshaft or connecting rods. It is an essential part of a cars powertrain system and is responsible for managing the fuel delivery, ignition timing, and transmission shifts to ensure optimal performance and efficiency of the car. What causes the engine shudder 21N08 issue? If it becomes corrupted or damaged, it can cause all sorts of problems including engine shudder. It was program #21N08 PCM Reprogram due to engine shudder. Calling the dealer when I get back and having it looked at thanks for this info. 14. When it comes to tools, home improvement, and being a shade tree mechanic, youve come to the right spot. Everything seems relatively fine since, no check engine lights. Detroit. One of the most common issues that you may face is to program 21n08 PCM to reprogram due to engine shudder. Thank you for choosing Ford! The 21N08 is a pcm reprogram due to engine shudder that reverts the programming back to the original programming prior to the 21B10 reflash. In some cases, this can lead to a crash. to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 2], Positive Experience: Third Party Warranty Repair, Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, Hmmm? My truck has 8600 miles on it currently. Join Date: May 2021. By logging into your account, you agree to our, yes they are only done if the concern is present. At the time of the PCM reprogramming, it may address the engine shudder 21N08 issue, as this issue is often caused by a problem with the PCM software. Generally, the timing chain, chain tensioners and water pump will be replaced at the same time, driving costs up to about $3,000. Was it stalling or did the auto shutoff just turn it off for a few seconds? Honestly? Mine doesn't die like yours, but definitely a problem there. Over the weekend I pulled over to the side of the road to get something out of the glove box and the truck stalled while I was idling in park. The open recalls are unrelated to the transmission. You must log in or register to reply here. I am confused about this. We are talking about millions of trucks and SUVs! How can I verify my PCM is extended to 70k? When there are problems with the transmission, it can cause the engine to shudder. Can the engine shudder 21N08 issue be fixed without reprogramming the PCM? '22 camera issue made worse by dealer and others issues not resolved. Id like to know whats causing this as well. More importantly, this recall is supposed to help extend the life of the cam phasers as demonstrated by their extended warranty coverage for vehicles that received this PCM reprogram prior to February 2022. These effected models include: This vehicle repair also covers the Ford Raptor and Limited F150 variants. If your vehicle is equipped with the 3.6L engine and has less than 80,000 miles, it may be eligible for a free of charge power control module (PCM) reprogramming. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Powertrain Control Module Reprogram for Cam Phaser Rattle, Rear Light Wiring Ford Tail Light Wire Colors, Top 6 Brake Pads for 2013 Ford F150 44: Find the Perfect Fit for Your Truck, 6 Best Mud Flaps for F150: Ultimate Guide for Truck Owners, Boost Your F150s Power: Best 9 Cold Air Intakes for 2017 Ecoboost Reviewed. Send us a private message with your F-150's VIN. Since we know what these issues are, you are safe to buy one of these Ford models. call your dealer and schedule an appointment. This condition is typically caused by the buildup of deposits on the intake valves and combustion chambers. and if so an updated calibration will be applied. I had the original work done under warranty 54k . For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. LOL, Ford Raptor Exterior Modifications Forum [GEN 1]. Are CSP's only performed as needed? X-Bull winch reviews | Where are they made? You may then need the cam phasers replaced through the 21N03 customer satisfaction plan. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. We also share information about your use of our site with our social media, advertising and analytics partners. While there may be other potential remedies for the engine shudder 21N08 issue, such as replacing transmission components or performing other repairs, the PCM reprogramming process is often the most effective and efficient solution. FSA 21N08 | Ford Raptor Forum This newer field service action 21N08 software update is designed to solve the motor shuddering problem caused by the 21B10 reflash. at 2017, 2018 and a 2019. I hope that you find everything you need on our website and that we can help guide you through all your automotive needs. If Ford was serious about this they would offer customers compensation as Volkswagen did. So, it is certainly very uncomfortable and potentially dangerous for the drivers and passengers.
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