RELATED LINKS Try this episode's happiness practice: 36 Questions for Increasing Closeness Read Kelly Corrigan's new book, Tell Me More Transcript Kelly Corrigan:Well you know, sometimes the trivial is tragic. The reach of language can be laughable.. Kelly Corrigan:Yeah. In other words, it could happen to you tomorrow.. I mean, I remember thinking, when I wasnt sure, when I was in an especially tough moment of illness, every time I would look at Zachs nails I would think, Is this what wouldve happened if I hadnt been here to do this? What do we do when the labels were given arent necessarily the ones we choose for ourselves? Kelly Corrigan:My friend Andy Lotts, who is Lizs husband, told me about it, cause hes a mom now, and so we talk mom talk. Mom, we cant sell family, right? I looked at this sweet-natured adorable little puppy and acquiesced. So, I grew up with this sentence with my fathers voice in my head saying, Allah Kareem, God is generous., Cheryl:Our family motto is, Dont eat a hamster. But first, we need you to sign in to PBS using one of the services below. Go get mixed up in something. It just came out whole, and of course, to me its the most important and moving chapter in the book for sure. Theres a whole world out there happening, and you can step into all kinds of things, and you dont need to know why youre leaving the house. Im so glad youve been plugging in and hope to keep hearing your feedback! So, Dont eat a hamster is our version of Dont jump to conclusions.. Both Kate and Kelly are remarkable women and in tandem they make for great listening. Duration: 3:0 Transcript HARI SREENIVASAN: Now to another in our Brief But Spectacular. This is the way this has to be, and its right there. Its a very learned thing that I have to insert the words into my mouth, and push them out deliberately, because my instinct is to solve. Kate Bowler:Getting back to life has been really tricky. Lang Lang and Gina Alice play the piano in Lafayette, CA. So, Dont eat a hamster is our version of Dont jump to conclusions.. Kate Bowler:Yeah. Kelly Corrigan:Hey, thanks for having me. I mean, its a little bit like, Just keep saying yes. You know, When in doubt, say Sure, Ill do that, just to see what happens next, just to see who you might meet. Just get in the mix, get in the line of fire. So, its funny that that phrase really begat the whole book in a way, because I had been feeling this shame about not really earning my days here, and then Ed and I were at dinner, and we were talking about the difference between saying Im sorry, and saying I was wrong, and I was saying, God, its so much more powerful though in the humility in saying I was wrong.. You've just tried to add this show to My List. This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Kelly Corrigan:So, she had to call someone and ask them to come over and zip her dress so she could go to the wedding. She totally doesnt get it. Were jumping in way too soon and talking way too much. Kelly Corrigan:And then she died, and my dad called, and my dad had nothing but positive things to say to me my entire life, and he said, You should have gone to see your grandmother more. Kelly Corrigan:So, she had to call someone and ask them to come over and zip her dress so she could go to the wedding. Kelly Corrigan:You cant be in the world, and get through your to-do list, and also sit in endless, rich gratitude. I really appreciate it. Warmly, Surely, my friend, my lost and lovely friend, called for new words. Kelly Corrigan:Hearts dont idle. Can we trust our gut? (As consciously lesbian from about four-years old, believe it or not, I preferred handsome to pretty.) The words we speak, and the words spoken over us. We should thank the chef. Kelly Corrigan:You know, that I had lost his favor for a moment, and I was just so ashamed. Yeah. Kelly Corrigan:Ah, it was so terrible. Kate Bowler:I do think people offer certainties when they think that youre proof of something that scares them, and they cant just live in the uncertainty of not knowing for a minute. Its the title of my memoir-still-in-progress. Kelly Corrigan:I was perhaps proud about it honestly, and I was reading 7 Habits of Highly Effective People at night with my big fat yellow highlighter, and I was really full of attachment to this identity that I had painted for myself. I loved this episode! I was healthy, and then I was sick, and now Im feeling pretty good, and even though the language around immunotherapy isnt perfect, I can happily say that I am in remission. Kelly shares a graduation speech, a conversation about takeaways from high school with her daughter and a special reading with Oscar winning actress Helen Hunt. I went to see her one time. Just see who you can bump into out there. Yeah. Im Kate Bowler, and this is Everything Happens. Its the motto I live by when my opportunities are too big, and my capacity and capabilities too small. Kate Bowler:You are someone who has gotten mixed up in all kinds of things, and I am so glad to know you. I went to see her one time. So, I just really went bananas, because on top of the shirt problem, I went downstairs to clean the kitchen, and I found everybodys bowls, and spoons, and cups, and I had that reaction that so many women have, which is, Well I guess Im the least busy. Kelly Corrigan:So, this was about all of these people calling me to say, I heard your friend died. I mean, people are getting colon cancer at your age all the time. I dont have the genetic predisposition. Just do your best. Maybe Wills curious phrase, Its like this, applies here too. Kate Bowler:Well, the quote that really resonated with me is when you said, They are moving onward, not away from you, but with you. Kate Bowler:You and I are super chatty people, but you make an amazing pitch for silence, and I am all for it, because everyone always had these go-to things to say with me like, You can do it, or Youre so brave, and all the things that made me feel like I was on the other side of plexiglass. What do you do when life doesnt fit into neat categories? Kelly Corrigan:Youre feeling like ABC, not DEF. So thats the beauty of it. This is an amazing story. Kerri, So, I think things happen when you leave the house. Team Everything Happens, Kate, Follow Kelly on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. Today is the right day to Love, Believe, Do and mostly Live. The Big Short, Moneyball, Liars Poker, these stories stand for whole industries because Michael Lewis puts just the right protagonist in the center. Theyre poking for that critical difference to hold on to, and I wanna hug em, and say, I know. Kelly Corrigan Wonders: Michael Murray on the Social Science of Faith Ill read you a little bit from the very end of that chapter because the thing that he was saying I think is, This is how it goes.. Its so that they can identify some critical difference between you and them that makes them feel like they can exhale again. Kelly Corrigan:I mean, unless youre a monk, and youre meditating for 60 days in a mountain somewhere. Kelly Corrigan:Hearts dont idle. Read more about this episode, and get show notes, here. Kelly Corrigan:Well you know, sometimes the trivial is tragic. Constance shares her experiences as an actress in Hollywood both on and off screen: the privilege and responsibility of representation, being a true artist, navigating social media and an incident which took her to a very dark place.Special thanks to PBS for supporting Tell Me More and this podcast series. I heard your friend died, and I just couldnt bear to call them back. Im hearing all the music, Im totally tuned in to the right channel, and then just like that, I slip into those mundane irritants., Kelly Corrigan:And then I catch myself, and then I feel this sense of shame, and he said, Its like this. The space between doubt and belief is often unpopular, but the tension can be held. Kelly Corrigan Wonders listeners will be familiar with Alexs story as we shared it in the episode A Mother Son Story of the Ultimate Transition and it was also replayed it in the For the Good of the Order feed. Kelly Corrigan:I mean, thats where it is. Kate Bowler:Well, the quote that really resonated with me is when you said, They are moving onward, not away from you, but with you. We were living in Damascus, Syria, and whenever one of us asked for something Mom and Dad couldnt afford, Dad would say Allah Kareem. In Arabic, Allah means God. Kate Bowler:I need to hear what your motto is. I was wondering if you could tell me about that. Kelly Corrigan:So, this was about all of these people calling me to say, I heard your friend died. Kate Bowler:Yeah, I believe you. One is called Yesterday and the other is called Tomorrow. I didnt do it. Being a runner, this has always been meaningful for me. I mean so far, knock on wood, Im getting to see my kids be much, much older than she got to see her kids be. I think part of why your book is so moving is the way that these sayings crystallize these really big truths about who we are, and also how we should love each other. Kate Bowler:Thanks so much for doing this. 5:55. He had things to do for days, and days, and days, and eulogies to write, and people to hug, and people to thank, and accounts to close, and cars to sell, and he had work to do, both emotional and just literally logistics. Kelly Corrigan:Its like a game changer. Each episode ends with Kellys shortlist of takeaways, appropriate for refrigerator doors, bulletin boards and notes to your children. Kelly Corrigan:Sure, my pleasure. Dont worry, and she said, Well, my problem is I cant zip my dress by myself, so I thought if it was a woman, I could ask her to come in, and zip my dress, and I thought, Thats the tiny moments that are so gut-wrenching for a new widow. Tomorrow, March 28, 2023 would have been his 40th birthday. Dalai Lama XIV, Cheryl, Kelly Corrigan:They hate it. Minds dont rest. Kate Bowler:My life doesnt exactly fit into neat categories anymore. To learn more about Everything Happens for a Reason (and Other Lies Ive Loved) by Kate Bowler, click here. The idea that any day could be this huge day, I dont know, that really gets me out of bed, you know? Onward, my dears. Over 50 & Flourishing with Dominique Sachse. Oh, The People You'll Know!. Graduations, diminished though they may 00:35:25 - Annie Jean Baptiste in the Head of Product Inclusion at Google where she spends her time thinking about the products we use very day and how who's a Kate Bowler:Yeah. And Ive talked to a couple of my girlfriends whove gotten divorced, and they say the exact same thing happens to them. The name is a lyric from . Forever? Kelly Corrigan:Dont get crumbs on the baby. Theres a title. In, warm, insightful, often funny conversations, Kate talks with people about what they've. So, I was wondering, would you mind reading that beautiful passage you wrote about after Liz died? Kelly Corrigan:So, I say at the end of this chapter, Shouldnt loss change a person for the better? Kate Bowler:You put in a strong argument, if I may say it like that, for just being close to one another. Join New York Times bestselling author Kelly Corrigan as she choreographs big-ideas conversations with some of the creative thinkers and artists who define our time. Constance Wu and Kelly Corrigan in Lafayette, CA. Inspiring and thought-provoking interviews conducted by bestselling author Kelly Corrigan. Okay, but Im just telling you those kids are waking up every day without her, and theyre going to keep being without her forever. Ill definitely have to write this one down and bring it out on a particularly overwhelming day! Kelly Corrigan:Have you ever heard that potted plant theory? He is also the father to three great characters, including Dixie, who was killed in a head on collision in May of 2021. Maybe Wills curious phrase, Its like this, applies here too. It just ends the tension because what youre saying is, I see it how you see it, and I agree with you. Ill definitely remember this motto and will probably end up using it, if you dont mind . Kate Bowler:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Best, Kelly Corrigan:Yeah. Kate Bowler:Absolutely. Kelly Corrigan:And Im getting to walk with them way longer on their road, and I felt this sense that I could never possibly deserve that, that Im not that great a person, or a mom. Kate Bowler:Yeah. Kathy and her husband Tony have three children. For the Love Podcast - Jen Hatmaker Kelly Corrigan:So, I get it, but I spend a lot of time with them, and Im madly in love with them, really, really have this deep, incredible connection with them that I just value so much, and they are in her, and you know, theyre everything that was so important to her. I love your book and your honesty as I keep questioning everything. Kelly Corrigan:I sat at my dining room table, which is place I never write, and I thought, Oh my God, of course I know exactly what this is. On Sundays, Kelly records a special podcast called, "Thanks for Being Here" where she reads the toasts and tributes that listeners have submitted about those they love. Kate Bowler:Well, the one that we sort of settled on most was, Dont let the turkeys get you down, cause we were all deeply unpopular children, but it did make me think about mottos, and how it sort of defines the season that we live in. Youre going to slide around, you know, youre going to deserve your life a little more some days than others. Lives dont last. Welcome to Kelly Corrigan Wonders, a place for people who like to laugh while they think and find it useful to look closely at ourselves and our weird ways in the hopes that knowing more and feeling more will help us do more and be better. It doesnt end, and also you cant live there. Kate Bowler:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Youre giving these beautiful phrases, and each of them feels like a kind of roadmap, and you start with one that really resonated deeply with me. I think part of why your book is so moving is the way that these sayings crystallize these really big truths about who we are, and also how we should love each other. Playlist. Her memoirs include " The Middle Place," and her first children's. Kelly Corrigan:And I should not lose my mind over a shirt I bought on final sale section that didnt fit even though I tried to pull it over myself, and then it got stuck on me, and I had to cut it off with scissors. We had several hamsters in one cage, and they can be cannibalistic, and one morning a hamster was missing, and another hamster had a suspiciously large tummy. Labels like chronic illness, or caregiver, or widow, or mom of a kid with special needs. Labels like chronic illness, or caregiver, or widow, or mom of a kid with special needs. Thats like total vanity but, especially with the kids, I definitely think, Edward and I both think, If you let us run this out for you, well get it done like one, two, three, and thats so humiliating, and degrading, and just the opposite of self-esteem building, which is sort of like the ground we walk on as adults. This interview is perfection. Kilpy If you haven't heard of Father Greg Boyle, let us introduce you: a Jesuit priest who has a touch of Santa Claus in his affect, Greg Boyle has collaborated with thousands of former gang members to build thriving businesses and communities of radical acceptance in East LA. I dont have the genetic predisposition. In fact Im in the middle of reading both of your books right now. Kelly Corrigan:You cant be in the world, and get through your to-do list, and also sit in endless, rich gratitude. You surely know about hard times, and I love that you are continuing to show up every day. Kilpy Ten days before I was scheduled to defend my dissertation, English Policies, Curricular Reform and Teacher Development in Multilingual, Post-colonial Djibouti, I got the call. Kelly Corrigan:And he said, Thats a way to be a parent, which is to say to be there, to be available, to be within view, but not necessarily inserting yourself, because even though as your kids get older and older, it feels like theyre looking for you less and less, it is sort of a comfort to glance over, and see you there, and feel you there, and they would most certainly notice if you werent. Kelly has also agreed to be my friend as part of her contractual commitment to this podcast. You say something thats so weird cause I say it all the time, so when I read it I thought, Did you reach inside my brain? You adopted the phrase, Onward as a bit of a motto. I rebelled. Kate Bowler:Todays episode is brought to you by our partners, North Carolina Public Radio WUNC, the Lilly Endowment, The Issachar Fund, The John Templeton Foundation, Faith and Leadership: An Online Learning Resource, and Duke Divinity School, and of course, Beverly Abel, Jessica Richie, and Be the Change Revolutions. Just see who you can bump into out there. They hate it. Kelly also hosts her own podcast Kelly Corrigan Wonders, which she describes as a "place for people who like to laugh while they think." On the podcast, she tackles a different question every month in a series of weekly conversations with some of her favorite thinkers. Yeah. Go get mixed up in something. Id say that there is definitely such a thing as a questioning Christian. The things we tell ourselves and each other are so important, arent they? It just came out whole, and of course, to me its the most important and moving chapter in the book for sure. Kelly Corrigan:So, my dad died in February, and then my friend Liz, whos the mother of three kids, 8, 10, and 12 at the time, died that December. Thanks For Being Here Mary Hope's Letter Introducing Alex. All moments, days, chapters are transitory and the good ones leave us as do the bad ones. Stay healthy. It was because I had been selfish, and my dad caught me. Our family motto is, We dont sell family. When our dog was a puppy and being housebroken, he kept sneaking around piddling in the corners of rooms. I thoroughly enjoyed your podcast and listening to you both. I think thats cause we were always sort of fighting nearby. Shes not going to hold their babies.. Kilpy Im sorry to ask about the hard part, but would you mind telling me what happened? Michael Lewis on What Makes Some People Irreplaceable. Kelly Corrigan:Thanks. Id love to hear more about what this means to you. Kareem means generous. Now a cognitive scientist and podcaster, Maya grew up immersed in the . Find me online at @KateCBowler, and Id love to hear what you think of this episode. Yeah. When I read that, I just kept thinking of how scared Ive been about what I call being a zombie. Recently I coined maintain the faith, exit with grace. Jennifer Garner tells Kelly Corrigan how she inspires others to find their true passions. So now if a family member is being difficult or misbehaving, we have established ground rules, So and so is family and we dont sell family! Kelly Corrigan:Im telling you what, man, you can not believe how much I use this, and you can not believe how still it is not my natural instinct. So, I kind of wondered if there was a motto youd pick for you for right now, what would it be? Kelly Corrigan:And it wasnt my turn for his attention. Kelly Corrigan:My instinct is to fix, cause I feel Im almost sure I can. Plus, we learn how the same technique can actually reduce racism and prejudice. I mean, Im totally coming to see you. Rocky is family, and we dont sell family, I replied. She lives in Philly and I live in California. He shares what draws him to people, how he writes them into stories and how openness and vulnerability are key elements to finding a strong character. If you love the episode, please share and review. Kelly Corrigan:Where you can feel the person kind of asking around, snooping just enough, and its not for your sake. Thank you for helping me think more deeply about my words; not just the words I speak to others but the words I speak to myself. I mean, that was my big experience of your book. Thank you for adding to the number of not-normal, cry-at-the-drop-of-a-hat people in the world. Take Care Kate, I dont know. By creating an account, you acknowledge that PBS may share your information with our member stations and our respective service providers, and that you have read and understand the Privacy Policy and Terms of Use. You start with, Its like this.. Im coming. Its a sin, its hell. Thats where its at. Im not sure where the bar is set at in normalcy though. Im a questioning Christian (if there is such a thing) since I doubt youd ever see the Son of God appear in any of the beautiful Catholic or mega churches that apparently represent Him. Advice to graduates: Just ask questions Kate Bowler:Im Kate Bowler, and this is Everything Happens. Maya Shankars Plus One is Christy Warren, a former first responder with 25 years of experience in the field. Suddenly, just showing up was in question. Kelly Corrigan:Like, almost every time Im sure that if you just let me take over, I can make this problem go away.